the Henny Flynn podcast

Finding Calm Amid Chaos: TONIC for emotional first aid (S15E5)

• Henny Flynn • Season 15 • Episode 4

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Imagine having a gentle yet powerful tool in your back pocket that you can use whenever you need some First Aid. A tool that's there for you, whatever situation you find yourself in - helping to manage feelings of overwhelm, overstimulation and dysregulation, as you navigate life's unpredictable changes.

This self-guided emotional "first aid" technique is built around the mnemonic TONIC. In the episode we'll explore how these 5 stages: Time out, Options, Name, Intention, Compassion help us to recognise and nurture what we're feeling in the moment - and identify a way forward.

Join us as we explore the power of setting positive intentions and nurturing self-compassion. By focusing on simple affirmations like "I am safe" or "I am here," we connect mind and body to soothe the nervous system and encourage self-kindness, just as we would show to a loved one. Through physical gestures and written reflections, discover ways to cultivate a sense of warmth and care towards yourself. 

As we embrace this new fortnightly rhythm to our podcast, I am so grateful for your support. Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to connect and share your reflections. I also invite you to sign up for my written reflections, offering a continuous source of support in your own journey.

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Speaker 1:

There were so many things that I have thought about talking about today, maybe as a result of changing the cadence of this podcast to every fortnight rather than every week, which is what it's been for the last few years. Welcome to the Henny Flynn podcast, the space for deepening self-awareness with profound self-compassion. I'm Henny, I write, coach and speak about how exploring our inner world can transform how we experience our outer world, all founded on a bedrock of self-love. Settle in and listen and see where the episode takes you. Some of those thoughts have come from you A beautiful suggestion about doing an episode on, about doing an episode on what comfort really feels like, what it means, and for me, that sparks the thought of what it feels like when we resist it as well, and also the distinction between comfort and distraction. So that is definitely something that is going to come up during this season. There's also been a metaphor that has been rolling around my head for the last couple of weeks, all to do with picking blackberries, and I am certainly planning on doing an episode on that, and I will uh, I'll just leave you with that little teaser, um, and see, see what that sparks for you, um, and and actually what landed with me came out of a few client conversations and the realization that maybe it's time to do an episode that is offering something really practical, something that you could potentially pick up and use today pick up and use today and it's something that I have come to create or identify I suppose might be a better word as a technique for when you're feeling overwhelmed, overstimulated, dysregulated and you need some really fast first aid and you know, first aid for me means something that we can access ourselves. Maybe it's something that someone else can guide us through if we're really, really struggling. So this could be something that you might want to share with a loved one, maybe share the episode, or share the, the practice that I'm going to talk us through today, or share it with friends as something that they may also find useful.

Speaker 1:

So, when we are in this state of absolute overwhelm, it can be triggered by so many different things. It can be triggered by so many different things. Maybe there's a change that is happening around you, maybe grief, maybe loss of a job, maybe the ending of a relationship, something which is feeling that it's external to you and is directly impacting you in a way in which you feel as though you've got no control, and that can feel incredibly overwhelming. The other aspect of overwhelm is often when we've got more choice than we might necessarily want in that moment. So it might be that we're looking to make a change and all of the options in front of us just feel so vast, so challenging, so big and brave, and scary and hairy challenging, um, so big and brave and scary and hairy, that the our system just falls into the state of overwhelm, because actually that's what keeps us stuck and means that we then stop making choices and and that, in a way, takes the problem away, even though it feels really, really hard. And, of course, the other aspect of all of this is that it might be a change that you're actively seeking to make. So maybe moving house or creating a brand new way of working, or, um, or maybe you're the one leaving the relationship, or you're the one leaving the job role and moving to something else.

Speaker 1:

You know, all of these things can also create a sense of overwhelm. You know our system going oh goodness me, how am I going to cope Now in and amongst all of this? Maybe there's a sense of feeling overstimulated as well. Perhaps some of the stuff that's happening around you is just really, really intensely stimulating your system. We often use the language of triggers and I know it's a little bit overused, but it's overused partly because it's such a good word to describe what it feels like in our system when something is getting intensely activated by something else and that can lead to this state of overstimulation.

Speaker 1:

And often what that can feel like is when we are feeling really, really sensitized. Maybe something specific has happened and our system hasn't had a chance to process that, to come back into homeostasis, into a state of balance, and we're still highly activated, and therefore then small things can feel like they're almost like, uh, like you know, tiny little, uh, pinpricks of things that we might have managed in the past can feel like they're, you know, a knife coming into us. I mean, gosh, that's a really horrible expression, isn't it? But that is often how it feels, um, that it feels like it's something that's, like, you know, that's cutting through into our, like our deep, deep sensitivity and, um, kind of breaking through the um, what might be feeling like a really thin layer of protection around us, and so we can feel really overstimulated and then, and then, alongside this, that other sort of state of being that I mentioned at the beginning is this sense of being dysregulated.

Speaker 1:

You know, often what we're really looking for in in psychological terms is is regulation, uh, emotional regulation, which is when we can see that something is hard or something is painful or something um is really deeply, deeply challenging, and we also recognize that we are okay now. Obviously, sometimes we're not okay, we're genuinely in danger. And that's when, you know our system, our fight flight freeze, our amygdala, our limbic system. You know that's when that's what they're designed to do. They're designed to keep us safe, keep us alive, get us out of danger, make us as safe as we possibly can be when we are in danger.

Speaker 1:

The challenge is, when we're dysregulated is that that that response to the world has got really highly activated and so our whole system feels out of kilter and um, and we respond to things, uh, in a way that is, um, maybe out of proportion with how we might have responded to them if our system was, you know, fully regulated, fully regulated. And you know, all three of these things overwhelm, overstimulation, dysregulation they're really common. You know they're not things to beat ourselves up about. And if you know, if you've listened to the podcast, you'll know that I've shared times when that's absolutely been the case for me. There was one example in particular where I had what I believe has been my only panic attack but memory can be a you know, nebulous thing sometimes, but I had a panic attack climbing up a very, very steep, very muddy slope.

Speaker 1:

Now my recognition is that other things informed the way that I responded to the fear, the massive, massive fear that suddenly overwhelmed me. I recognize it goes back to experiences I had as a child. I recognize it goes back to experiences that I've had, like throughout my life, of not listening to my inner voice. Hence, you know, we teach what we most need to learn like we really need to listen to our inner voice um, and, and it overwhelmed me, on that muddy slope I say muddy slope, it was really steep and there was, there was literally nothing to hold on to and and I just felt like I was falling off the earth. I mean, that's literally the experience I had. If you've ever had that kind of experience before you'll you'll recognize it.

Speaker 1:

If you've not experienced it, it might sound incredibly dramatic and and you know, unnecessarily um, you know, um, oh, I don't, yeah, dramatic, but the experience of it in my body was absolutely terrifying and I mean, I genuinely felt I was falling off off the earth. I had to, like, cling on to the mud, um and uh, and try and stop that from happening. And so you know, we have all had our own versions of experiences that have left us feeling overwhelmed, overstimulated, dysregulated. And so this mnemonic came to me when I was helping someone that I love very much to navigate an experience that they were having, and I haven't really shared it that widely.

Speaker 1:

I've been kind of observing its use. I've been observing how I've been able to use it, not necessarily at times when I've been like so overstimulated or so overwhelmed that it's that the first aid has been really, really vital, but more I've been using it to see, okay, if I'm kind of like edging towards something, how does this mnemonic help me here? And I've also been observing it with the people that I have shared it with. That I have shared it with, and you know that's a lovely thing to remember because you know, in very uh, you know sort of Victorian times, you know taking a tonic when you um, when you weren't feeling a hundred percent, you know that's a very um, that was a very uh, common um, sort of tool that people used. What was in those tonics might have been a little bit, might not necessarily recommend them now, but, um, you know the the concept of tonic and the concept of tonic water, of course, was that it had quinine in it and and people who traveled out to India during the time of the Raj you know they drank tonic water because it had quinine and that meant that they were a little more protected against malaria. So hopefully it's a word that is familiar with us and I think there's something rather neat about this idea that when we need first aid we can take a tonic.

Speaker 1:

The T stands for timeout, the O stands for options, the N for name, I for intention and C for compassion Tonic, timeout, options, name, intention, compassion. And I'll just talk us through what is involved in each of those five stages. And they are stages and the intention is that you follow them one by one, because my sense that that is what helps our system come into a state of regulation, a state of where that overstimulation settles and where we can create a little bit of distance from what might be overwhelming us and then be able to see, well, what could be my best way forward. So clearly it's not a magic wand we still need to hold ourselves in a way that means that we are caring for ourselves rather than abandoning ourselves, which is often what happens. Caring for ourselves rather than abandoning ourselves, which is often what happens when we are in a high state of anxiety. There's this sense of self-abandonment, but just by following this mnemonic tonic, we are acknowledging what we're experiencing and by doing that, we are turning toward ourselves and and that, for me, is, is one of the most powerful things that we can do. And from there, I think it's amazing how we can see that there are choices ahead of us that we could take that are different from, perhaps, what we're feeling in that moment.

Speaker 1:

So the T for time out, it basically means take yourself out of the situation in whatever way you can. Now that could mean going to a quiet space, going outside If you're in a group, then stepping back, like physically just taking a small step back just to give yourself a little bit more space around you, or even mentally creating some space, a pause around you, so kind of stepping inward and and hopefully that that's if that kind of resonates with you, this idea that, like we kind of realize that all of our energy is like pushing out. Pushing out because we're like, we're desperately trying to push away the stuff that is making us feel so uncomfortable, and and really this idea of stepping inward and creating a time out for ourself, creating some space within us, even if we're not able to physically create some space around us, means just releasing some of that, that pressure that we've been applying to pushing everything else away, and recognizing that actually within us is infinite space and we can just step in. That doesn't mean dissociating, it doesn't mean stepping so far in that we lose contact with the outside world. It's simply an inward action. And actually, even as I'm doing it I kind of wish I was videoing this actually, but even as I'm doing it there is this very slight movement of my torso, just a very slight shift back, and that can give us that moment of overwhelm over stimulation, dysregulation, anxiety, whatever it is that you're really like facing into, really like struggling with. Maybe there's an opportunity to create a time out geographically, you know, take yourself to a different space physically, literally by stepping back, or internally, by just just coming inward a little bit, maybe sort of creating or recognizing that you have some boundaries in place that perhaps you'd forgotten were there.

Speaker 1:

The other thing about the time out is also to put away any distractions you've been using to avoid attending to what you're feeling. So this is really important because often when we're in that state, um of like overwhelm, etc. We might not have recognized that we're moving toward that state. It might have just either like whoosh, like landed on us or very possibly it's a state we've been slowly moving toward in a kind of mindless way, like we haven't been paying attention to what we're feeling, we've been suppressing the inner voice, we've been not listening to ourselves, not listening to the cues that we're picking up from around us, and we might find that we've started using distractions more so phones, classic, you know. We might find that we're scrolling on Instagram or Facebook or whatever your, your metier is, um we might find, uh, that you've been working longer hours, um, working on stuff that really didn't need quite the amount of attention that you've been giving it.

Speaker 1:

Maybe, elongating the length of time, something's been taking, um, subconsciously, of course, um, maybe, uh, maybe you've um just been like zoning out in front of the telly. That's definitely an a pattern of mine. Hence we've now got rid of our tv, which is a whole other podcast episode. But, um, you know that would that was definitely an old pattern of mine was just like zoning out, and so I would. I came to understand that if I was walking into the lounge, switching off on the telly, slumping down and just zoning out or you know, to whatever was on, that was a very clear sign to me that that something wasn't right. I was, you know, over overstimulated in some way, or or exhausted maybe.

Speaker 1:

So part of this time out of tonic is to put away those distractions you've been using to avoid attending to what you're feeling. It doesn't mean putting them away forever. This isn't binary, this isn't this or that. It's just put them away for the moment. Just pay some attention to yourself in the most loving way, okay.

Speaker 1:

So next comes options. The o of tonic is options, and this is so vital because when we're in that stuck place, it can sometimes feel as though like the whole world has like fallen in around us and we have no options, or it can feel like everything has left us so exposed that we've got way too many options to deal with. So part of the options is recognizing that you have them and being really clear with yourself that you can either carry on feeling as you are or you can choose another path forward. So it's not about oh my God, all these options around this thing. That is like filling my vision. It's more about recognizing that you have options about how you're feeling.

Speaker 1:

When we consciously choose to attend to how we're feeling, that is choosing or acknowledging our agency, and I think I think there's there's a subtlety here that is really, really important, because what we're not doing is saying I shouldn shouldn't be feeling this way, I must be feeling another way, and kind of trying to like force ourselves, which really doesn't work. Or putting a, you know, a rose-tinted veil over everything and just pretending that it's all okay. That was definitely one of mine. That, um, that tone of voice that came up, um, you know, this is about really noticing. So you've taken the time out which gives you the opportunity to recognize that you have some options here, and just by taking the time out, of course, you're already activating one of those options that's available for you, which is to take time out. So if that is all that's available for you, just to notice that, then you're beginning to notice your own sense of agency, and that's incredibly powerful when things are overwhelming.

Speaker 1:

Now the N of tonic is to name, to name what you're feeling. There is so much evidence around this and if you're familiar with the work of Tara Brack, you'll know the RAIN mnemonic, and part of that RAIN mnemonic is to recognize and through that is actually to name what you're feeling. So this is really important. We name what we're feeling either to a trusted other or to yourself, or to something greater than you, depending on what your sense of your spiritual connection is or your connection with a higher self, a higher other. You may choose to name it to the universe, to the angels, to god, to the goddess, um, to all the gods you know, whatever it might be for you, um, I, I like to um, invite all of them in I'm, I'm hedging all of my bets, you know. So, um. So you name what you're feeling and if you don't have that sense of connection with a divine other, that's okay, because the divine is also within you. So name it to yourself. Or find someone that you really, really love and trust, someone who you know isn't going to try and fix things, and name it to them. Just ask them if they will just listen while you name it. Name what you're feeling, name the feelings. Now.

Speaker 1:

Maybe journaling everything you're noticing can be, you know, something that might really really help you. I find that incredibly useful myself. Of course, that's why I wrote the book in the flow journaling your inner wisdom. It's why I journal myself. It's it's why the very first episode in this whole podcast series is about journaling. So journaling for me is a really powerful pathway to naming what is going on within me. If that's not for you, absolutely okay.

Speaker 1:

If it is for you, brilliant, go try it, so you can either write it down or you can say the emotions and feelings one by one, out loud or in your head, like if you, if your sense of time out, you're in a busy space, then you might just want to name it in your head, because maybe it doesn't feel available to you to say it out loud in front of the people that you're with, or you haven't got privacy to be able to do it them one by one, like giving each one the space. So I am feeling lost, okay, okay, I'm feeling lost. I'm feeling angry. Okay, I'm feeling angry. I'm feeling frightened. Okay, I'm feeling frightened. Okay, I'm feeling frightened, like, whatever those feelings are like, and your language will be your language, but that is my.

Speaker 1:

My approach is to name it and then, and then to kind of just like, okay, I acknowledge that's there. And what this does is it helps the parts of you experiencing the negative feelings feel heard. This is so important. We all have these different parts in us and so often what we've been taught through our experience in life and you know, and it's been taught to us often by very loving caregivers is that negative feelings are horrible to have and so we suppress them. And often people who love us don't like it when we're feeling negative things because it makes them feel bad and so we suppress them. Um, what can? What can happen then, of course, is that these negative feelings they feel they have to shout to get our attention. So when you name what you're feeling, you're acknowledging the experience that these parts of you are having. It means they feel heard. They don't have to shout so loudly to get your attention. And if you notice, we're not trying to fix anything, we're not trying to change anything here. That's, I think this is one of the reasons why this mnemonic tonic is so powerful, because it's it's allowing ourselves to be with what's going on and recognize that we have agency and and that gives us a sense of forward motion and and for me, I think this this really relates to the reason why I describe myself as a therapeutic coach, because this work, this deep, deep, deep, loving work, is also it's about being with and acknowledging and understanding and recognizing, and it's about this forward attention to okay and and how can I best support myself here?

Speaker 1:

And that's really where the eye of intention comes in. So, tonic, time out options, name intention and we set an intention that clearly states how we wish to feel. An intention, as I'm sure you already know, is a short, positive statement in the present tense, such as I am calm, or I am safe, or I am okay, or simply I am here. It could be whatever you want. I think there is something really powerful, particularly when we're in this kind of state of we're moving out of this state of overwhelm, overstimulation, dysregulation, it's really helpful to keep it short, because that feels achievable. When we start trying to overcomplicate it, to make it encompass all things, our head can get too involved and we can start getting a bit lost in it. So set a really simple intention, such as I am okay, I am safe. That's one of mine, I am safe. And repeat it three times, if you can, and if you could see me now, you'll know. You know I'm doing this right now. If you can place your hand on your heart and whisper it to yourself, or say it like as loudly as you can, you know, depending upon where you are, or just say it to yourself in your own mind, this helps to calm your whole system, creating an opportunity for your brain and your body to start to reconnect and for them to begin to believe what you're saying.

Speaker 1:

Often, when we're in this state of high anxiety, it's like we're disconnected from our body and our brain. You know what's going on in our head, you know like this fierce desire to uh, to protect ourselves, has gone into overdrive and and we've started ignoring what's going on in the body, which is one of the reasons why the body can then, like, cry out and say listen to me, and that's when we can, you know, collapse, like what happened to me on that muddy slope. So, with this intention, we're placing a hand on our heart, or hand on our belly, you know, or both. That's so lovely, um, and we're simply saying I am safe, I am safe, I am safe, or whatever your intention is, and you can say it more than three times, you can keep saying it to yourself, you say it as often and as many times as feels okay, as feels right, as feels useful for you, calming your system and really listening to the words as you say them like, really listening to the words. And that's why, sometimes, an intention like I am here might be the best one that we can use, because it might not feel true to say I am safe, or it might not feel true to begin to set the intention of I am calm, but beginning with something like I am here, there's an absolute truth about that. I am here, I am here, I am here, and just even in those words, we can start to hear the voice of our inner wisdom, our wisest, kindest self. The part that I talk about in in the flow, the, the journaling book around that. It's that voice that often shows up in our journal. So I am here is a way of letting all these frightened parts of us know that within us is self with a capital S Wise, kind self.

Speaker 1:

And then, lastly, with tonic, we come to compassion. Of course, of course. Of course it's compassion how could it be anything else, and the most vital thing is be compassionate towards yourself. Being cross or frustrated or ashamed of how we've been feeling simply adds another layer to the negative feelings. We're just ramping it up when we start to beat ourselves up about something that we've been feeling. So this comes back to this. This the o of tonic, in that we have options, we can choose something different, and that something different can be compassion toward ourselves.

Speaker 1:

You know, the principle here is to extend the same kindness to yourself as you would to a loved one. That's Dr Kristen Neff's definition of self-compassion. And the thing is that within compassion, woven deeply within that word, is this sense of wanting to help, wanting to provide some kind of support to the person that we're extending compassion to. And so, therefore, when we're compassionate toward ourselves, we're extending that same sense of wanting to, to be useful, wanting to help, wanting to be supportive in some way. And we're not. We're not compassion in this sense. It doesn't mean pretending that everything's okay sense. It doesn't mean pretending that everything's okay or being compassionate towards ourselves because we want to feel better. We're extending this compassion in recognition that things are feeling hard, and that is really important.

Speaker 1:

And I think it's something that often gets missed when we talk about compassion or talk about self-compassion. It's really understanding that it is an active you know an active practice. Um, you know an active practice. It's. It's not a way of avoiding the reality of what we're experiencing. It's a way of being really fully present with what we're experiencing, with the deepest love that we can extend to ourselves. So, the deepest love that we can extend to ourselves.

Speaker 1:

So, if needed, you know, within this, this part of uh tonic, this first aid, keep your hand on your heart. I've had my hand on my heart the whole time I've been talking to you, of course, and what this does is when we place our hand on our heart. The body doesn't know the difference between when we extend a loving gesture like this toward ourself or to somebody else. It's like giving ourselves a hug. The body doesn't know that it's not coming from somewhere else and and what it does is it means that we're we're demonstrating the depth of our affection toward ourself, just as we might if we came across a friend who was in pain, struggling with something.

Speaker 1:

And this hand on your heart, it helps to release oxytocin, which is the caregiving hormone. It's the hormone that nursing mothers release after their child is born, and it's the bonding hormone and and so it's a way of like extending this extreme care toward ourself and and that's what happens is oxytocin starts to move through our system and that helps reduce the levels of cortisol and adrenaline, which may have been firing up, will have been firing up when you were feeling overwhelmed, overstimulated, dysregulated, and when you're in this compassion phase of tonic, obviously, you can keep repeating your intention whenever you need a reminder, a reminder, and the invitation here is to practice this, maybe to practice it when something just feels a little bit off kilter within you. Just see how it is to take a tonic timeout options. A tonic timeout options name, intention, compassion. See how your body feels at the beginning and at the end. And the more that we practice this way of attending to ourselves, the more we build the muscle memory that reminds us that we are able to attend to ourselves.

Speaker 1:

So in those times when we're feeling so, so overwhelmed, so stuck, so lost, so anxious, we can remember oh yeah, I have this, I have this tonic, I can take this tonic. I understand this tonic, I understand how it will help me and even if it just gives us a tiny, tiny little inward shift, away from those feelings that have been dominating our vision, our experience, that tiny shift can be such an enormous step towards making a choice that is going to serve us better. You know, one small step for man, one small step for mankind, one giant leap, rather, one giant leap for mankind. You know, it's this idea, that, um, because often, when we are, when we are in such a place of of anxiety, when when it feels like there are no options available for us, there are no options available for us simply understanding that we can exercise a choice to practice tonic, to take tonic breaks, that belief that might be forming with you know, the belief could be I can't do anything, I don't know what to do, I can never fix this, I can never change this, whatever those those thoughts might be recognizing that oh, hang on a minute, there is something. I can never fix this, I can never change this, whatever those those thoughts might be recognizing that, oh, hang on a minute, there is something I can do and it's really straightforward and I can talk myself through it or I could ask a loved one to talk me through it. So I do recommend sharing this um, and and just going through this with you has been really useful for me, actually noticing the shift in my own body as I've talked you through it. Maybe you've noticed that too. Maybe you've sensed a shift in your system, a kind of recognition that these things are available to you, and hopefully, the mnemonic tonic mnemonic tonic that's nice, isn't it? Hopefully the mnemonic tonic feels something, something that, um, you can just keep with you. It's like uh, it's like a thing to pop in your back pocket, um, and you know, maybe it's something that you write down, time out, options, name, intention, compassion so that you have it to hand and you can remember oh, yeah, okay, I just need to take some time out, create a bit of space around me. Remember, I have some options about how I'm feeling. Just by doing this, I'm making a choice. I can name what I'm feeling, giving each feeling some space. I can set a clear and simple intention for how I wish to feel and I can be compassionate toward myself about what's going on. You know, for me that sounds immensely useful, and hopefully it does for you too.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to share more about this tonic. I'm going to share more about this tonic. Um, maybe, maybe we have a um, yeah, it might turn into an uh insight timer um course, actually, or uh, um, an event that you could come along and practice it with me. Maybe practice it in pairs, or practice it with me. Let's see. Let's see where those thoughts go, but for now I hope you find it useful. I'd love to hear your reflections on it. Of course, I always love to hear from people. So, um, do, do, let me know. You can always email me, henny, at hennyflynncouk.

Speaker 1:

And I think the other sort of connecting thread here is, if you aren't yet signed up to the mailing list, then I share lots of really wonderful things that can be incredibly useful, either as self-reflection points, which is often what the podcast is about, or these very practical bits of guidance, things to experiment with. And, of course, I also share everyday compassion. Now, if you don't yet receive it, I highly recommend it. Of course I do, but it is such a beautiful thing and I'm so grateful to the inspiration that led to the creation of Everyday Compassion. Basically, it's an email that you'll get four times a week Monday, tuesday, thursday, friday.

Speaker 1:

Incredibly easy to read, so short couple of sentences, maybe not even that, maybe just a few words, all written, all created to help activate that sense of self-compassion. You don't have to do anything with them. They're so easy to read and they're designed to bring a sense of ease, and if that's something that you would love to find out more about, to have coming into your inbox, then there's a link in the podcast notes, in the show notes, and also, just come along to hennyflynncouk and you can just sign up on there as well. Or, if you want to, you can literally just send me an email and let me know that you'd like to get it and I can make that happen for you. Um, okay, my darlings, so I think that's probably enough from me for today, and I really, really loved being with you here. I really did.

Speaker 1:

I'm so glad I've moved the podcast to this fortnightly cadence. It feels it feels really perfect, and I've had so much lovely feedback from people telling me that it feels right and how grateful they are that I've acknowledged that this is important for me and that that is also helping them in some way acknowledge what's important for them and the ways that they can best show up in the worlds that they inhabit. So it was a bit scary, I have to say, and if you listen to the episode on it. You'll know it was a bit scary, but it feels absolutely right. And, and if you sign up to the mailing list, you'll get notification of when the new episodes come. And you'll also get a written piece every alternate Sunday. A reflection, because for me it is all about the word written and spoken. Um, that's been a recent realization, but of course, of course it's always been true, but I think I've only just really named it. So anyway, I'm sending so much love and I'm sending a hug and a wave. Thank you.